Value Driven Data Science: Boost your impact. Earn what you’re worth. Rewrite your career algorithm.

[00:00:00] Dr Genevieve Hayes: Hello and welcome to Value Driven Data Science, the podcast that helps data scientists transform their technical expertise into tangible business value, career autonomy, and financial reward. I'm Dr. Genevieve Hayes, and today I'm joined by Kashif Zahoor. Kashif is the Vice President of Business Intelligence at Influence Mobile and has extensive experience in data leadership.
[00:00:27] In this episode, we'll explore Kashif's journey from data order taker to strategic business partner, uncovering actionable strategies you can use to transform your own data science career. So get ready to boost your impact. Earn what you're worth and rewrite your career algorithm. Kashif, welcome to the show.
[00:00:50] Kashif Zahoor: Thank you for having me, Genevieve. It's fantastic to be here and I just wanted to say before we start, I really appreciate the way you've been engaging with the data community, whether it's through your thoughtful LinkedIn posts. Or the deep dives on this podcast it's clear that you are passionate and about bringing valuable insights to your audience, and I look forward to this conversation.
[00:01:10] Dr Genevieve Hayes: Thank you very much. So, when I first entered the data profession, I imagined a career where senior executives would urgently call me into meetings to leverage my insights for solving pressing business problems. And although this did happen later in my career journey, the reality of my early days came as quite a shock to me.
[00:01:32] Rather than influencing strategic decisions, I found myself as a data order taker, running reports, extracting data, and responding to endless requests without seeing how my work impacted the business. This isn't just an entry level problem. Even with experience, many data scientists remain trapped in order to taker roles, limiting their career growth and earning potential.
[00:01:58] Now. As a Vice President of Business Intelligence, Kashif, you've clearly managed to successfully navigate the transition to strategic business partner in your own career, and I think there's a lot of value in exploring transformational journeys such as your own. So to begin with, I'd like to go back to the early days of your career.
[00:02:22] How did you initially find yourself in an order to take a role, and what were those experiences like?
[00:02:28] Kashif Zahoor: That's a great question. So looking back at my journey from a brand new analyst outta college to a seasoned leader. It's not just been a shift, it's been a tremendous journey with its fair share of bumps and bruises along the way. Early on my time as a bi analyst it felt like.
[00:02:48] Working at McDonald's it was all about speed and fulfilling specific requests. A stakeholder would ask for a report for Q3 with extra fries and I'd whip it right up for them. It was incredibly reactive purely focused on tactical questions, and it made me
[00:03:06] question, what value does my data work really begin? And I think this is a common challenge. Data teams are often seen as a cost center. And that's not the business's fault. They're focused on their own goals, but I think it's our responsibilities as data professionals to show value far beyond just fulfilling requests.
[00:03:25] And the real aha moment came for me as I matured in the role and began to challenge that reactive mindset. I.
[00:03:35] Dr Genevieve Hayes: I think the low point of my early career was when I was a graduate and one time one of the senior leaders in my organization came to me with an urgent request that needed my help on right away, and it was the first time it ever happened and I was so excited. And then they told me what they wanted.
[00:03:53] Genevieve, I need you to print out every page of this Excel spreadsheet for me by lunchtime. And it was definitely not what I had in mind when I did my degree.
[00:04:03] Kashif Zahoor: Yeah, and it's. It's not easy, Genevieve. It means pushing back on established norms and at sometimes facing resistance. There were projects when I tried to dig deeper only to be met with, just give me the numbers. There were moments of doubt wondering if I was overthinking it. Being an order taker was just the reality of the job.
[00:04:23] But those bumps actually fueled my conviction. I started to ask. Instead of just giving them what they asked for, what do they really need? What are the company's biggest strategic goals? And my mind shift shifted. And instead of waiting, I began to proactively align my bi work with strategic goals, identifying growth opportunities even before stakeholders realized they had a problem.
[00:04:47] And so when I finally got a chance to run my own team, I know. I wanted to bring these hard won lessons with me. And my goal is to empower my team to move up that spectrum from order taker to strategic partner, and helping navigate those inevitable bumps that they could find their stride as true data leaders.
[00:05:09] Dr Genevieve Hayes: Was there a single moment where you realized you needed to transform the way you approached your work or. Was it something that just gradually happened over time?
[00:05:17] Kashif Zahoor: You know, I feel like it was a gradual shift. I don't think I can pinpoint an exact moment. I think it's kind of like that boiling frog analogy where, you don't realize it's happening that gradual temperature's increasing. Increasing.
[00:05:32] And the next thing you know, the frog is boiled.
[00:05:34] Dr Genevieve Hayes: And what was the first step you took in starting to make that shift?
[00:05:39] Kashif Zahoor: Well, you know you referenced the post that I wrote on LinkedIn. I try to think back about what is it that I did to kind of help me with that shift? And so I don't know if this is a good time to go into that framework or did you wanna say that for later?
[00:05:55] Dr Genevieve Hayes: I'll just give the audience a bit of background on this. So the reason why this. Episode came to be was because I came across a LinkedIn post of yours where you described a three step framework for data professionals looking to make the shift from order taker to strategic professional with the three steps being amplify efficiency, deliver measurable value, and partner first, analyze second.
[00:06:21] So let's discuss those three steps.
[00:06:27] Kashif Zahoor: Sure, let me back up for just a second. So every data leader at some point is probably heard, or thought about. What value does the data team actually bring? And it's a question that can hit you really hard, especially after all the hard work your team puts in. For years, I think data teams have been seen as order takers, churning out reports and providing numbers.
[00:06:49] But I think we're at this pivotal moment where I think data teams can and must become strategic partners. This isn't just about better data, it's about better outcomes. So, I'll go through the steps one by one. So the amplify efficiency, step one. So think about it. How much time does your team spend on repetitive manual tasks?
[00:07:11] And if you're stuck in that report factory mode you're not just wasting time. I think you're missing opportunities for true strategic work.
[00:07:20] Dr Genevieve Hayes: With ai there are so many things that you can now use to amplify the efficiency of your work and use your time far more productively. Other than using AI to amplify your efficiency, what other things can data scientists do to amplify the efficiency of their work?
[00:07:37] I.
[00:07:37] Kashif Zahoor: I think one of the key things is efficiency isn't just about saving time. I think it's about speeding up decision making. So, we work with our different departments, whether it be the product team or the sales team to cut their decision cycles from often days to hours. And in today's fast paced.
[00:07:57] Business world. I think speed is a competitive advantage.
[00:08:01] Dr Genevieve Hayes: Some of the ways I can think of where I've done this in my career is. Is, Just having standardized processes. So for example you might have a tasks constantly being asked for, if you have all the data ready for that particular task and can just press a button.
[00:08:17] After changing a few parameters, then you are gonna be able to get that decision made a lot faster.
[00:08:24] Kashif Zahoor: Absolutely, absolutely. Just empowering the business. In a sense that, you talked about, think about if you're doing a lot of ad hoc work, and they are all kind of along the same theme. If you think about, okay, what is the root thing that they're asking for over and over again, and if you build them a report that.
[00:08:45] Like you said, change a few parameters and then they can kind of self-service themselves. Then that will also take a lot of overhead off of your team's play.
[00:08:55] Dr Genevieve Hayes: One I came across the other day is having client profiles for each of your clients. So you know, particular stakeholders, they're not gonna change their needs overnight.
[00:09:06] Most of what they need is going to remain the same for the entire duration, that they're your stakeholder. So if you have a profile for each of your stakeholders and. Keep updating that as you go. You don't have to ask the same questions again and again of them.
[00:09:23] You can just refer to that profile and you know that's an asset that you can create that will amplify your efficiency.
[00:09:29] Kashif Zahoor: 100%. That is a great insight to create that persona of each kind of department and their needs. And we do that at our company. We have. Of the different needs of the different departments profiled in a sense that allows us to quickly take some of their needs and turn them into reports a lot easier because we have the core foundational knowledge of their needs already profiled, like you said.
[00:09:53] Dr Genevieve Hayes: So the next of those three steps in your framework is to live for measurable impact. What do you mean by that and why is that important?
[00:10:01] Kashif Zahoor: Great question. I think it's not enough to be efficient. If your work isn't moving the needle on key business metrics, you can generate a thousand reports. But if they don't directly lead to like revenue increase or a cost reduction, or a better customer experience, leadership will struggle to see your true value.
[00:10:20] Dr Genevieve Hayes: What exactly do you mean? By measurable 'cause that's the key word here.
[00:10:24] Kashif Zahoor: Measurable. I mean I think it's the old Peter Drucker quote, if it doesn't get measured it doesn't get managed. So it's really important that you have instrumentation on all the key business metrics and understand which ones are the critical ones because
[00:10:40] you can get lost in too many metrics as well. And so one of the challenges is making sure you identify the key drivers of the business and really be focused on how can you move the needle on those three or four key things that drive business value.
[00:10:57] Dr Genevieve Hayes: I'd expect what you're talking about here are things like dollars and cents or hours spent completing a task rather than accuracy of your model.
[00:11:06] Kashif Zahoor: Exactly, one of the things I ask my team to do is sit down with the finance people and make sure you understand how the business model works. That provides them incredible perspective on how to translate. How the rubber meets the road, if you will.
[00:11:21] Dr Genevieve Hayes: My background's as an actuary before I became a data scientist. And that was one major advantage of that training because, we spent a lot of time learning about finance, and the actuarial department always works very closely with the finance department.
[00:11:37] So by the time I was going into data science, I had a very strong grasp of how many businesses work from a financial side.
[00:11:45] Kashif Zahoor: So key Genevieve, my very first week on this job I sat down with our VP of finance and our president of the company who understands our business model inside and out. And you, you wanna start there and work backwards.
[00:12:00] Dr Genevieve Hayes: Yeah. What if your work doesn't have a direct financial impact? For example, I was speaking to a friend of mine with experience in the not-for-profit sector the other day, and he told me one of the biggest challenges in that sector is that the work many charities do is very hard to measure in dollars and cents.
[00:12:19] For example, getting homeless people off the streets how do you measure the impact in those situations?
[00:12:25] Kashif Zahoor: Well, I think in a nonprofit from a nonprofit perspective you're talking about kind of like the intangible KPIs. Is that what you mean?
[00:12:32] Dr Genevieve Hayes: Yeah, that's right.
[00:12:34] Kashif Zahoor: Yeah, it's something where I think about like the nonprofit's mission, for example. What is it that they're trying to accomplish? So it's not always dollars and cents, it can be things like finding the core mission of the nonprofit, breaking it into measurable outcomes, and then tying your KPIs to that.
[00:12:54] Dr Genevieve Hayes: So, for example, I'm just thinking about something like, say a food bank. How would you tie that to a direct impact?
[00:13:03] Kashif Zahoor: That's a great question from a food bank's perspective , their mission is to lower food insecurity. So KPIs for that would be things like how many households were served. Or there's another as far as unhoused people there, how many unhoused people did you provide emergency kits to?
[00:13:26] So just finding what is it that the mission is of that nonprofit, and then breaking it down into what are the key outcomes that we want, and then tying your KPIs to that.
[00:13:40] Dr Genevieve Hayes: And if you really wanna go into it I read a while back, apparently in New Zealand. And they worked out the lifetime cost of someone being on welfare. And their goal was to reduce the total lifetime cost of all New Zealanders who are on welfare. Because if you've got someone who's born into a family, where both parents are unemployed and is receiving welfare, then that person's less likely to.
[00:14:09] Do well in school, less likely to go on and get well trained and get employment themselves, and they're likely to perpetuate that cycle to the next generation. But, if you can do something, it's not just about saving a year's worth of welfare. It's about saving a lifetime's worth of welfare.
[00:14:28] Kashif Zahoor: That's a really smart way to do it.
[00:14:30] Dr Genevieve Hayes: And the third point you had was partner first, analyze second. What do you mean by that and why is that important?
[00:14:38] Kashif Zahoor: I think this is my favorite step of all three of them this is where I think many data teams stumble. You can have the. Best technical skills, the most sophisticated models. But if you can't communicate your findings in a way that resonate with business leaders, you're gonna remain an order taker. And some things I think you can do to address that is you really need to speak fluent business, not just sql.
[00:15:00] I remember early in my career , just. Saying things like, the p value of our regression model indicates statistical significance, and you just get some blank stares and so now it's more helpful to say, this means we are 95% confident that investing in X will lead to a 10% increase in sales.
[00:15:18] It's all about translating complex data into actionable insights for decision makers.
[00:15:25] Dr Genevieve Hayes: When I taught the data science course, I taught at the university. I used to have a rule for my students. Never say the word eigen value in public.
[00:15:37] Kashif Zahoor: Oh, so true.
[00:15:39] Dr Genevieve Hayes: And I actually saw an episode of Illegal Drama where one of the expert witnesses in it said the word iGen value in his testimony. And then they show the jury just, glazing over. And I just couldn't believe it's like, oh my God, a television show has actually picked up on this.
[00:15:57] Kashif Zahoor: Your point. Exactly. The other couple things I wanted to talk about on this point was I think an 80% answer now is far more valuable than a perfect one next quarter. So in business decisions often can't wait. It's about moving from data purity as your north star to business impact.
[00:16:14] Sometimes good enough to make a decision is exactly what's needed. Unless you're like NASA in a space shuttle or ocean gate and they're submersible having an answer that is. 80 or 90% as opposed to kind of waiting for perfection is something that I try to emphasize to my team.
[00:16:31] And the last thing on this I wanna say is, this is a mindset shift. Instead of waiting for someone to ask for a report, start with the why. What business problem are we trying to solve? What decision needs to be made? When you start with the why, you move from being a report factory to a true thought partner guiding the conversation with data.
[00:16:52] Dr Genevieve Hayes: What if your stakeholders don't wanna partner with you? You alluded to that earlier in the episode, and this might be the case if. You previously presented yourself as an order taker or if you're relatively early in your career.
[00:17:04] Kashif Zahoor: I think you have to build trust and you do that through consistent delivery. So trust is earned not given. As we all know. I think if you start with quick, impactful wins and deliver consistently and be transparent about your process, and you can be reliable, those small wins can build credibility. And then credibility is what gets you invited to the bigger strategic conversations down the line.
[00:17:29] Dr Genevieve Hayes: Hmm. Right. And another thing you can do, you don't have to get the CEO in a meeting on day one, and you're probably not gonna manage that, but in building that initial trust, you can start by focusing on stakeholders who might be closer to you on the corporate ladder and building trust from there.
[00:17:48] Kashif Zahoor: Exactly. I've been fortunate to work at a lot of companies with a flat organization, so I haven't often run into the hierarchical thing that you're describing there. And most stakeholders, if you build some rapport with 'em, and they get the sense that you're there to help them solve their problems.
[00:18:07] They are more than happy to partner with you and talk to you.
[00:18:10] Dr Genevieve Hayes: I've worked in both big organizations with, major hierarchies and smaller flat organizations, but I've been lucky to have spent. Quite a bit of time at those smaller, flatter organizations, and it's really great if you can go to the lunchroom and find the CEO making his cup of coffee and have a chat with him.
[00:18:32] Kashif Zahoor: Absolutely in any social setting team building events away from work wherever you can build those bridges you absolutely should take that opportunity.
[00:18:43] Dr Genevieve Hayes: So of the three steps we've discussed, which do you believe is the most important?
[00:18:48] Kashif Zahoor: I think it's step three, the partner first and analyze second. That's the most critical one in my opinion,
[00:18:53] Dr Genevieve Hayes: And is that the one that data scientists should focus on first?
[00:18:57] Kashif Zahoor: I think. So it's about the relationships and understanding the business, just partnering with your stakeholders, I think unlock so much.
[00:19:05] Dr Genevieve Hayes: Yeah. 'cause you're right. If you don't have those partnerships, then amplifying efficiency or measuring your impact is irrelevant because you're not gonna have any impact because you don't know what your stakeholders want.
[00:19:17] Kashif Zahoor: Exactly, exactly. I could agree with that 100%.
[00:19:22] Dr Genevieve Hayes: So what's the single most important change our listeners could make tomorrow if they wanted to transform their data science role from or to take it to strategic partner?
[00:19:33] Kashif Zahoor: Stop waiting for the question and start with a business problem.
[00:19:37] So instead of sitting back and waiting for the stakeholder to come to you with data request, can you pull X report? And I need numbers on Y take the initiative. So tomorrow morning. Identify one key business challenge or strategic objective your organization is currently grappling with.
[00:19:55] It could be anything, improving customer retention, optimizing a marketing campaign, reducing operational costs, or identifying a new revenue stream. And once you have that problem in mind. Formulate hypothesis about how that data could provide an answer or a solution, then proactively reach out to the relevant stakeholder.
[00:20:15] Don't go in just with charts and graphs. Go in with a question. Something like, I've been thinking about our churn rate and I have an idea on how we might. Use our customer data to identify at risk customers early, would you be open to a 15 minute chat to talk about it? And I think this simple shift from reactive data person to a proactive business problem solver signals a fundamental shift.
[00:20:41] You're no longer processing requests, you're actively seeking to drive value and influence strategy. So I think it's about bringing solutions to the table, not just data.
[00:20:51] Dr Genevieve Hayes: My experience is the majority of. Business leaders are very busy people, and they want your help. So if you come to them with a solution or an idea for a solution, they'll probably green light it because they're happy that, A, they don't have to find something for you to do.
[00:21:08] And B the outcome of this will probably help them and make their life easier.
[00:21:13] Kashif Zahoor: Exactly I think everyone has their own self interest in mind and if. You have that mindset as a data person and be like, Hey, if I was in their shoes, what would I want someone to bring to me? And if you think like that, and I think to your point, most of them would be thrilled if someone came and took that kind of initiative.
[00:21:32] I.
[00:21:33] Dr Genevieve Hayes: That's how I built my early career by just, preempting things and pulling things out, you know. Oh, it would be really nice if we had this. Oh, well actually, it just so happens that I did that. Here you go.
[00:21:44] Kashif Zahoor: Right, exactly. Can I sneak in one more thing? I think they can do.
[00:21:49] Dr Genevieve Hayes: Go ahead. I.
[00:21:50] Kashif Zahoor: All right. So I think. Is also by prioritizing business impact over report output. So before you start any project, any project at all, ask yourself how will this directly move a key business metric? And if you can't answer that, then you should rethink your approach.
[00:22:09] Focus on the measurable difference you're making, not just the volume of data you're producing. So that's the second thing I would ask your listeners to consider.
[00:22:16] Dr Genevieve Hayes: So, for listeners who wanna get in contact with you Kashif, what can they do?
[00:22:21] Kashif Zahoor: I am active on LinkedIn. So come find me there. You can just look up my name and I love having conversations with the data community. Genevieve, I know you've interacted with tons of people on LinkedIn and I just. Like to just be a part of that conversation that goes on as data leaders for everyone to move forward and be more successful in their roles.
[00:22:45] Dr Genevieve Hayes: And there you have it. Another value packed episode to help turn your data skills into serious clout, cash and career freedom. If you enjoyed this episode, why not make it a double next week? Catch Kashif's value boost a 10 minute episode where he shares one powerful tip for getting real results real fast.
[00:23:08] Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss it. Thanks for joining me today, Kashif,
[00:23:12] Kashif Zahoor: It's been a real pleasure Genevieve.
[00:23:15] Dr Genevieve Hayes: and for those in the audience, thanks for listening. I'm Dr. Genevieve Hayes, and this has been Value-Driven Data Science.